Discussion:
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
(too old to reply)
The NATO Citizen
2004-09-30 13:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
By ESLaPorte
Thu, Sep 30 2004
http://www.pronato.com/commentary/index.htm

Until 2006, our NATO Alliance will provide "air cover" for the border
between the Baltic countries of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The nations
of Belgium and Denmark first participated in this pointless, Cold War
action. Now, the UK is providing more fighter jets to this dumb, Cold War
action. And under this Cold War plan, Britain will be followed by Norway,
the Netherlands, Germany, the United States and Poland in providing the
cover. What a pointless waste of needed assets for our Alliance's new
missions for counterterrorism! What a wasted opportunity to get the Baltic
nations and Russia together in a positive spirit of cross-border
cooperation!

Prior to the Prague Summit in November 2001, many of us saw this coming.
First, the statements of the leaders of the Baltics, mainly Latvia, indicate
that they view their membership in out NATO Alliance in purely Cold War
terms. Statements from Baltic leaders indicate that they seriously believe
that that Cold War is still going on - and that they have somehow "switched
sides." Many of the statements from the leaders of Latvia were indicative
that the Cold War paranoia still healthy and thriving in the Baltics. While
our NATO Alliance and Allied nations state that the Cold War is over - it
has not ended for the Baltic nations.

The psychological Cold War continues in the minds of the leaders of
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The very statements of these Baltic leaders
indicated that these leaders believe that our NATO is "anti-Russian" and
this is not only wrong, but indicates that these leaders have the wrong
attitude and intentions with their NATO membership.

There are more positive and constructive ways to deal with the Cold War
phobias and paranoia of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. For one, the promise
after the Cold War ended was that NO lines of East -West hostility were to
redrawn over the map of Europe. Border security on that border can be
achieved without fighter jets, which our Alliance could use in more
productive missions. The security of the Baltic-Russian border should be an
opportunity to get the Baltic nations and Russia together in a spirit of
cooperation and friendship. Second, our Alliance should be working with the
leaders of especially Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to end the psychological
Cold War and the Cold War phobias of these leaders.

Both the NAC and the Russia-NATO Council should be used as a forum to
address anti-Russian fears and misconceptions. Part of the program for
Baltic NATO members should be an understanding that a. the Cold War is over;
and b. our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance; c. Russia can and will
someday be a member of our NATO Alliance. Education and understanding of the
North Atlantic Treaty, what our Treaty really means and the true meaning of
association with the North Atlantic Treaty should be given to Baltic
leaders. The truth is that a NATO information office, which there is one in
Moscow, should actually be set up in the Baltic nations. This office could,
as the one does in Russia, explain to Baltic people that the Cold War is
over and that our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance!

Unless we get Baltic nation leaders to understand that the Cold War is over
and that association with the North Atlantic Treaty is not an anti-Russian
association, then the Cold War could very well re-fire along the
Baltic-Russian border. These air patrols are the most DUMB thing that our
Alliance has undertaken - and they indicate that there is nothing be done on
the part of our Alliance to end the Cold War in the minds of Baltic nation
leaders. For the Cold War to end once-and-for-all, no actions that appear
to be anti-Russian. First - these air patrols should stop!

--
Maris
2004-09-30 18:01:10 UTC
Permalink
Suggest you stick this right back up the orifice from whence it came
ESLaporte aka NATO citizen (an impossibility since NATO is not a city)
aka troll.



On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:05:31 GMT, "The NATO Citizen"
Post by The NATO Citizen
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
By ESLaPorte
Thu, Sep 30 2004
http://www.pronato.com/commentary/index.htm
Until 2006, our NATO Alliance will provide "air cover" for the border
between the Baltic countries of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The nations
of Belgium and Denmark first participated in this pointless, Cold War
action. Now, the UK is providing more fighter jets to this dumb, Cold War
action. And under this Cold War plan, Britain will be followed by Norway,
the Netherlands, Germany, the United States and Poland in providing the
cover. What a pointless waste of needed assets for our Alliance's new
missions for counterterrorism! What a wasted opportunity to get the Baltic
nations and Russia together in a positive spirit of cross-border
cooperation!
Prior to the Prague Summit in November 2001, many of us saw this coming.
First, the statements of the leaders of the Baltics, mainly Latvia, indicate
that they view their membership in out NATO Alliance in purely Cold War
terms. Statements from Baltic leaders indicate that they seriously believe
that that Cold War is still going on - and that they have somehow "switched
sides." Many of the statements from the leaders of Latvia were indicative
that the Cold War paranoia still healthy and thriving in the Baltics. While
our NATO Alliance and Allied nations state that the Cold War is over - it
has not ended for the Baltic nations.
The psychological Cold War continues in the minds of the leaders of
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The very statements of these Baltic leaders
indicated that these leaders believe that our NATO is "anti-Russian" and
this is not only wrong, but indicates that these leaders have the wrong
attitude and intentions with their NATO membership.
There are more positive and constructive ways to deal with the Cold War
phobias and paranoia of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. For one, the promise
after the Cold War ended was that NO lines of East -West hostility were to
redrawn over the map of Europe. Border security on that border can be
achieved without fighter jets, which our Alliance could use in more
productive missions. The security of the Baltic-Russian border should be an
opportunity to get the Baltic nations and Russia together in a spirit of
cooperation and friendship. Second, our Alliance should be working with the
leaders of especially Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to end the psychological
Cold War and the Cold War phobias of these leaders.
Both the NAC and the Russia-NATO Council should be used as a forum to
address anti-Russian fears and misconceptions. Part of the program for
Baltic NATO members should be an understanding that a. the Cold War is over;
and b. our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance; c. Russia can and will
someday be a member of our NATO Alliance. Education and understanding of the
North Atlantic Treaty, what our Treaty really means and the true meaning of
association with the North Atlantic Treaty should be given to Baltic
leaders. The truth is that a NATO information office, which there is one in
Moscow, should actually be set up in the Baltic nations. This office could,
as the one does in Russia, explain to Baltic people that the Cold War is
over and that our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance!
Unless we get Baltic nation leaders to understand that the Cold War is over
and that association with the North Atlantic Treaty is not an anti-Russian
association, then the Cold War could very well re-fire along the
Baltic-Russian border. These air patrols are the most DUMB thing that our
Alliance has undertaken - and they indicate that there is nothing be done on
the part of our Alliance to end the Cold War in the minds of Baltic nation
leaders. For the Cold War to end once-and-for-all, no actions that appear
to be anti-Russian. First - these air patrols should stop!
Stanley
2004-09-30 22:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by The NATO Citizen
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
By ESLaPorte
Thu, Sep 30 2004
http://www.pronato.com/commentary/index.htm
[snip]
a. the Cold War is over;
Great. Tell it to the Belorussian dictator, Mr. Lukashenko.

b. our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance;
Stop russian planes = doesn't sound it ridiculous? Stop Baltic allies?
Take it easy, it's equal to russian ones. Both sides have the same
rights to control it's own air space - there is no difference between
Baltic countries and Russia anymore.

c. Russia can and will someday be a member of our NATO Alliance.
Do you really think so? Do you want Chechnya to be part of NATO?
Thanks, no.

And I agree - with small addendum:
First - these Russian air patrols in Baltic area should stop!
You disagree? Then don't ask ridiculous things from sovereign Baltic
countries. They deserve recognition for long suffering from Stalin's
regime and soviet occupation.

stanley
vienalga_man
2004-10-01 12:01:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stanley
Post by The NATO Citizen
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
By ESLaPorte
...
Post by Stanley
Take it easy, it's equal to russian ones. Both sides have the same
rights to control it's own air space - there is no difference between
Baltic countries and Russia anymore.
c. Russia can and will someday be a member of our NATO Alliance.
Do you really think so? Do you want Chechnya to be part of NATO?
Thanks, no.
First - these Russian air patrols in Baltic area should stop!
You disagree? Then don't ask ridiculous things from sovereign Baltic
countries. They deserve recognition for long suffering from Stalin's
regime and soviet occupation.
stanley
Probably a Pom.
And thanks for the support.
Somewhere down the track there'll be an alliance of the Civilised, for
the first time. Not an alliance based on marriage, Nitwit to Nitwit,
hoping for a major dynasty of nitwits. Nor an alliance based on Major
Bank Accounts, expecting even larger bank accounts (The "What else is
there?" set).
A different Common Cause, maybe. Based on intelligence and experience,
from the Black Sea to the Arctic, with a shared idea of how people
should live.

It's Spring in the Antipodes. I'll be too pissed to post for three
months at least.(Barbecues, you see.) But the SCB stuff stays on the
record and gets a reply, by-and-by.

R.
Vladimir Makarenko
2004-10-01 19:35:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by vienalga_man
Post by Stanley
Post by The NATO Citizen
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
By ESLaPorte
...
Post by Stanley
Take it easy, it's equal to russian ones. Both sides have the same
rights to control it's own air space - there is no difference between
Baltic countries and Russia anymore.
c. Russia can and will someday be a member of our NATO Alliance.
Do you really think so? Do you want Chechnya to be part of NATO?
Thanks, no.
First - these Russian air patrols in Baltic area should stop!
You disagree? Then don't ask ridiculous things from sovereign Baltic
countries. They deserve recognition for long suffering from Stalin's
regime and soviet occupation.
stanley
Probably a Pom.
And thanks for the support.
Somewhere down the track there'll be an alliance of the Civilised
Damn it, are Baltics on the track out again?

VM.



, for
Post by vienalga_man
the first time. Not an alliance based on marriage, Nitwit to Nitwit,
hoping for a major dynasty of nitwits. Nor an alliance based on Major
Bank Accounts, expecting even larger bank accounts (The "What else is
there?" set).
A different Common Cause, maybe. Based on intelligence and experience,
from the Black Sea to the Arctic, with a shared idea of how people
should live.
It's Spring in the Antipodes. I'll be too pissed to post for three
months at least.(Barbecues, you see.) But the SCB stuff stays on the
record and gets a reply, by-and-by.
R.
Uno Hu
2004-10-04 06:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by vienalga_man
And thanks for the support.
Somewhere down the track there'll be an alliance of the Civilised, for
the first time. Not an alliance based on marriage, Nitwit to Nitwit,
hoping for a major dynasty of nitwits. Nor an alliance based on Major
Bank Accounts, expecting even larger bank accounts (The "What else is
there?" set).
A different Common Cause, maybe. Based on intelligence and experience,
from the Black Sea to the Arctic, with a shared idea of how people
should live.
It's Spring in the Antipodes. I'll be too pissed to post for three
months at least.(Barbecues, you see.) But the SCB stuff stays on the
record and gets a reply, by-and-by.
R.
I envy you your antipodal spring.
The weather up here is suddenly tending much cooler and some of the
summer birds have just left. They say it'll be a El Ninyo winter and
milder than usual, but still.. I find myself to be less tolerant of
sleet and slush the older I get.

Uno Hu
vienalga_man
2004-10-05 09:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uno Hu
Post by vienalga_man
And thanks for the support.
Somewhere down the track there'll be an alliance of the Civilised, for
the first time.
...
Post by Uno Hu
Post by vienalga_man
A different Common Cause, maybe. Based on intelligence and experience,
from the Black Sea to the Arctic, with a shared idea of how people
should live.
It's Spring in the Antipodes. I'll be too pissed to post for three
months at least.(Barbecues, you see.) But the SCB stuff stays on the
record and gets a reply, by-and-by.
R.
I envy you your antipodal spring.
The weather up here is suddenly tending much cooler and some of the
summer birds have just left. They say it'll be a El Ninyo winter and
milder than usual, but still.. I find myself to be less tolerant of
sleet and slush the older I get.
Uno Hu
Quite so. Less tolerance for discomfort, when it returns nothing,
either in Morality Points or bank accounts.

Maybe let it rip. Maybe let them win. It could be fun, to watch most
of Hollywood getting stoned.
In a different way.

R.

«Pas de deux»
2004-10-01 01:00:40 UTC
Permalink
You are a useful idiot to Putin. How much does he pay you?

GK Montréal
Post by The NATO Citizen
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
By ESLaPorte
Thu, Sep 30 2004
http://www.pronato.com/commentary/index.htm
Until 2006, our NATO Alliance will provide "air cover" for the border
between the Baltic countries of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The nations
of Belgium and Denmark first participated in this pointless, Cold War
action. Now, the UK is providing more fighter jets to this dumb, Cold War
action. And under this Cold War plan, Britain will be followed by Norway,
the Netherlands, Germany, the United States and Poland in providing the
cover. What a pointless waste of needed assets for our Alliance's new
missions for counterterrorism! What a wasted opportunity to get the Baltic
nations and Russia together in a positive spirit of cross-border
cooperation!
Prior to the Prague Summit in November 2001, many of us saw this coming.
First, the statements of the leaders of the Baltics, mainly Latvia, indicate
that they view their membership in out NATO Alliance in purely Cold War
terms. Statements from Baltic leaders indicate that they seriously believe
that that Cold War is still going on - and that they have somehow "switched
sides." Many of the statements from the leaders of Latvia were
indicative
that the Cold War paranoia still healthy and thriving in the Baltics. While
our NATO Alliance and Allied nations state that the Cold War is over - it
has not ended for the Baltic nations.
The psychological Cold War continues in the minds of the leaders of
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The very statements of these Baltic leaders
indicated that these leaders believe that our NATO is "anti-Russian" and
this is not only wrong, but indicates that these leaders have the wrong
attitude and intentions with their NATO membership.
There are more positive and constructive ways to deal with the Cold War
phobias and paranoia of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. For one, the promise
after the Cold War ended was that NO lines of East -West hostility were to
redrawn over the map of Europe. Border security on that border can be
achieved without fighter jets, which our Alliance could use in more
productive missions. The security of the Baltic-Russian border should be an
opportunity to get the Baltic nations and Russia together in a spirit of
cooperation and friendship. Second, our Alliance should be working with the
leaders of especially Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to end the
psychological
Cold War and the Cold War phobias of these leaders.
Both the NAC and the Russia-NATO Council should be used as a forum to
address anti-Russian fears and misconceptions. Part of the program for
Baltic NATO members should be an understanding that a. the Cold War is over;
and b. our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance; c. Russia can and will
someday be a member of our NATO Alliance. Education and understanding of the
North Atlantic Treaty, what our Treaty really means and the true meaning of
association with the North Atlantic Treaty should be given to Baltic
leaders. The truth is that a NATO information office, which there is one in
Moscow, should actually be set up in the Baltic nations. This office could,
as the one does in Russia, explain to Baltic people that the Cold War is
over and that our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance!
Unless we get Baltic nation leaders to understand that the Cold War is over
and that association with the North Atlantic Treaty is not an
anti-Russian
association, then the Cold War could very well re-fire along the
Baltic-Russian border. These air patrols are the most DUMB thing that our
Alliance has undertaken - and they indicate that there is nothing be done on
the part of our Alliance to end the Cold War in the minds of Baltic nation
leaders. For the Cold War to end once-and-for-all, no actions that appear
to be anti-Russian. First - these air patrols should stop!
--
MirTopolskiRexPrez
2004-10-01 06:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by «Pas de deux»
You are a useful idiot to Putin. How much does he pay you?
Nonsense. Useful idiots don't do it for money - that's why they are idiots.
TheWanderer
2004-10-01 04:37:01 UTC
Permalink
What NATO alliance????
Terms of the agreement are that the alliance will help others in case one is
attacked.

Germany
France
and Spain

failed to help
Post by The NATO Citizen
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
By ESLaPorte
Thu, Sep 30 2004
http://www.pronato.com/commentary/index.htm
Until 2006, our NATO Alliance will provide "air cover" for the border
between the Baltic countries of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The nations
of Belgium and Denmark first participated in this pointless, Cold War
action. Now, the UK is providing more fighter jets to this dumb, Cold War
action. And under this Cold War plan, Britain will be followed by Norway,
the Netherlands, Germany, the United States and Poland in providing the
cover. What a pointless waste of needed assets for our Alliance's new
missions for counterterrorism! What a wasted opportunity to get the Baltic
nations and Russia together in a positive spirit of cross-border
cooperation!
Prior to the Prague Summit in November 2001, many of us saw this coming.
First, the statements of the leaders of the Baltics, mainly Latvia, indicate
that they view their membership in out NATO Alliance in purely Cold War
terms. Statements from Baltic leaders indicate that they seriously believe
that that Cold War is still going on - and that they have somehow "switched
sides." Many of the statements from the leaders of Latvia were indicative
that the Cold War paranoia still healthy and thriving in the Baltics. While
our NATO Alliance and Allied nations state that the Cold War is over - it
has not ended for the Baltic nations.
The psychological Cold War continues in the minds of the leaders of
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The very statements of these Baltic leaders
indicated that these leaders believe that our NATO is "anti-Russian" and
this is not only wrong, but indicates that these leaders have the wrong
attitude and intentions with their NATO membership.
There are more positive and constructive ways to deal with the Cold War
phobias and paranoia of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. For one, the promise
after the Cold War ended was that NO lines of East -West hostility were to
redrawn over the map of Europe. Border security on that border can be
achieved without fighter jets, which our Alliance could use in more
productive missions. The security of the Baltic-Russian border should be an
opportunity to get the Baltic nations and Russia together in a spirit of
cooperation and friendship. Second, our Alliance should be working with the
leaders of especially Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to end the
psychological
Cold War and the Cold War phobias of these leaders.
Both the NAC and the Russia-NATO Council should be used as a forum to
address anti-Russian fears and misconceptions. Part of the program for
Baltic NATO members should be an understanding that a. the Cold War is over;
and b. our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance; c. Russia can and will
someday be a member of our NATO Alliance. Education and understanding of the
North Atlantic Treaty, what our Treaty really means and the true meaning of
association with the North Atlantic Treaty should be given to Baltic
leaders. The truth is that a NATO information office, which there is one in
Moscow, should actually be set up in the Baltic nations. This office could,
as the one does in Russia, explain to Baltic people that the Cold War is
over and that our NATO is not an anti-Russian alliance!
Unless we get Baltic nation leaders to understand that the Cold War is over
and that association with the North Atlantic Treaty is not an anti-Russian
association, then the Cold War could very well re-fire along the
Baltic-Russian border. These air patrols are the most DUMB thing that our
Alliance has undertaken - and they indicate that there is nothing be done on
the part of our Alliance to end the Cold War in the minds of Baltic nation
leaders. For the Cold War to end once-and-for-all, no actions that appear
to be anti-Russian. First - these air patrols should stop!
--
Finellach
2004-10-01 20:56:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWanderer
What NATO alliance????
Terms of the agreement are that the alliance will help others in case
one is attacked.
Germany
France
and Spain
failed to help
Which alliance member was attacked?
Uno Hu
2004-10-04 06:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheWanderer
What NATO alliance????
Terms of the agreement are that the alliance will help others in case one is
attacked.
Germany
France
and Spain
failed to help
Who attacked?
Germany has about three thousand of their people in Afghanistan.
The Spaniards just left Iraq a few months ago. They helped.
France? France is France.

Uno Hu
Jerzy Pawlowski
2004-10-03 12:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by The NATO Citizen
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
By ESLaPorte
Thu, Sep 30 2004
http://www.pronato.com/commentary/index.htm
Until 2006, our NATO Alliance will provide "air cover"
for the border between the Baltic countries of
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The nations of Belgium
and Denmark first participated in this pointless, Cold
War action. Now, the UK is providing more fighter jets
to this dumb, Cold War action. And under this Cold War
plan, Britain will be followed by Norway, the
Netherlands, Germany, the United States and Poland in
providing the cover.
I hope they all volunteer to go to Afganistan and
Iraq, and get their stupid heads cut off by Zarqawi.
--
"Imbéciles réveillez vous!"

Jerzy Pawlowski (***@panix.com)
Uno Hu
2004-10-04 07:22:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by The NATO Citizen
Air patrols threaten to bring Cold War back to Eastern Europe.
Actually I think that the cold war never ended. See Chechnya.
See statements by russian officials, especially Gaspadjin Vladimir
Zhirinovskii.
Post by The NATO Citizen
Until 2006, our NATO Alliance will provide "air cover" for the border
between the Baltic countries of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
I think the correct terminalogy would be 'anti-terrorist air patrols'.
One can never be too safe these days, eh?
Post by The NATO Citizen
The nations
of Belgium and Denmark first participated in this pointless, Cold War
action.
And we thank them, heartily.
Post by The NATO Citizen
Now, the UK is providing more fighter jets to this dumb, Cold War
action.
That is incorrect, LaPantie. The UK will, somewhat surprisingly, be
providing Tornado air platforms instead of F-16s. The Tornados are
classified as tactical multi-purpose intermediate range air platforms
that are available in various configurations, not fighter-interceptors
per se.

Due to the fact that the Tornados are larger aircraft, Lithuania is
expanding its air base capacities in northern Lithuania to accomodate
the larger aircraft. As you can see the increased Baltic capability
will be a 'win-win' situation for all involved parties.

Ciao,
Uno Hu
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