Discussion:
The difference between them and us...
(too old to reply)
ESLaPorte
2004-05-05 11:42:54 UTC
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The difference between them and us...
Tue, May 04 2004
http://www.pronato.com/commentary/index.htm

While there are those out there who are attempting to cash in on the
Army-Iraqi prisoner scandal, what is missing is the real message. I do not
mean the propaganda that coalition forces in Iraq are "merciless
brutalizes," as some would like to get out of the Iraqi prisoner abuse
story.

First of all, there needs to be some prospective here. In the same prison
where the alleged abuse occurred - real horrible abuses and tortures
occurred under Saddam Hussein's fascist state. In Saddams' Iraq, the
electrical wires used for torture were live and may have caused pain to
many, even death. Under the coalition caretakers of the prison, the
electrical wires were not live. The truth is that the real "merciless
brutalizers" were Saddam Hussien's henchmen.

This is not to excuse the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. The real difference lies
in the level of outcry between the torture, rape rooms and mass murder under
Saddam Hussein and the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by their American guards.
Given the higher level of torture under Saddam as opposed to the American
occupiers - why is the outcry greatest?! Why is there a greater outcry now,
rather then under Saddam?

Again, this is not to excuse the abuse of Iraqi prisoners; but that the
answer is that a higher level of civilized behavior is expected from Western
coalition forces than from Saddam's regime. For communist/socialist
dictators like Hussein, or Stalin, or Milosevic - brutality is part of what
defines these rulers as tyrants in the first place. Dictators like Hussein,
Stalin and Milosevic practice instilling fear in the population as part of
how they govern and practice "state security." Torture, rapes and mass
murder are expected from brutes like Hussein and Milosevic.

The fact the shocking photos of American prison guards abusing and
humiliating their captives is causing such outrage, including in the
American government, indicates that we separate ourselves from the kind of
brutal behavior that was routine for Saddam Hussein's Iraq. What is for
certain is that we in the Western/Atlantic world, who represent freedom,
human rights and peace, are outraged. What is for certain is that those in
the American military who did these sickening behaviors against the Iraqi
prisoners will be punished for their crimes.

The real difference between us in the Western world and them in Saddam
Hussein's Iraq is that crimes of brutality are not tolerated and will be
punished. We cannot say this for the Hussein, Stalin or Milosevic regimes.
The world will see that this is true.
--
Erin LaPorte
The NATO Citizen - www.pronato.com
Milwaukee, Wisconsin - USA
"Long live the entangling Alliance!"
AK
2004-05-05 12:06:12 UTC
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Post by ESLaPorte
he real difference between us in the Western world and them in Saddam
Hussein's Iraq is that crimes of brutality are not tolerated and will be
punished. We cannot say this for the Hussein, Stalin or Milosevic regimes.
The world will see that this is true.
Yeah, right! The US government would have not given a shit if pictures were not
made public. This wide spread abuse (not limited to just this prison) has been
going on since the invasion, according to Amnesty International reports and
numerous Iraqis and Arab TV like al Jazeera (a station that Americans were
bashing and whining about for airing pictures that showed true face of
occupation). Nothing was done. There was no outrage, not a word, until CBS aired
a few pictures.

Are you claiming there was no outrage about Milsovic abuses?? You are ignorant
moron if you claim that.

Second, more importantly, the US invaded Iraq after lying that Sadam had WMDs.
When no WMDs were found, the US started claiming that they invaded Iraq to
"liberate" them from Sadam tortures. Well, guess what? Why shouldn't there be
outrage since we know now the second made-up reason for invasion (after the real
reason of WMDs turned out to be a lie) is also a lie? Americans themselves are
torturing Iraqis.
Nemo l'Ancien
2004-05-05 15:12:50 UTC
Permalink
The difference IS that Saddam never promoter DEMOCRACY....like US
badmedic
2004-05-06 05:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nemo l'Ancien
The difference IS that Saddam never promoter DEMOCRACY....like US
The problem is the Us seem hell bent on installing a democracy in Iraq.
Where in the middle east do you see a working democracy.
certainly not the liberated Kuwait nor our friends and allies the saudi`s...
So why expect Iraq to follow our western ideal as to how a country should be
run....
Cant see it working myself
---= Ö§âmâ ßíñ Këñ0ßí =---
2004-05-07 08:25:57 UTC
Permalink
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, "badmedic"
Post by badmedic
Post by Nemo l'Ancien
The difference IS that Saddam never promoter DEMOCRACY....like US
The problem is the Us seem hell bent on installing a democracy in Iraq.
Where in the middle east do you see a working democracy.
certainly not the liberated Kuwait nor our friends and allies the
saudi`s... So why expect Iraq to follow our western ideal as to how a
country should be run....
Bu$h didn't expect it. He expected the Iraqis to be like the Indians with the
British and play along, maybe for a few table scraps here and there, while Bu
$h's corporate buddies robbed Iraq blind like they've already robbed
taxpayers blind. Then Iraq would serve as the staging point against Iran and
Syria.

This was to be a Cru$ade in the full sense of the word, and it ended up just
like the last Cru$ades... a disaster!

Just hope this one doesn't bring another Black Plague home with it.

Amerikan idiots, always think they know better than everyone else. Amerikans
seem to forget that most of their modern inventions were created by
immigrants or copied from foreign innovations.

Simply put, Amerikans aren't so smart.
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---= Ö§âmâ ßíñ Këñ0ßí =---
2004-05-07 07:56:08 UTC
Permalink
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, "ESLaPorte"
Post by ESLaPorte
While there are those out there who are attempting to cash in on the
Army-Iraqi prisoner scandal, what is missing is the real message. I do not
mean the propaganda that coalition forces in Iraq are "merciless
brutalizes," as some would like to get out of the Iraqi prisoner abuse
story.
That's "propaganda"? That's not propaganda, that's a fact. Rumsfeld himself
has admitted that they've known about the abuses at least as far back as
January. That means that they only started getting worried in January, the
abuses had to have been going on before then, as well as obviously after
since the photos we're seeing now are recent. Furthermore, HUNDREDS of
other photos have been found, as well as several videos.

Lastly, consider that this was just Abu Ghraib, and it says nothing about
the wanton destruction and murder U$ troops have committed in the cities of
Iraq.

The truth will be know eventually, not now while Bu$h still has some
dictatorial clout left, but when Bu$h is finally defeated and can no longer
hide what has been going on all these years.

I GUARANTEE that some members of the Bu$h administration and certain
corporations are going to stand trial for treason in coming years. Perhaps
even Bu$H himself will go down... at least then justice will truly be
served.

Otherwise, Bu$h and the Imperialist corporate schemers like him will bring
Amerika down and destroy everything it once stood for.
--
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http://www.mingthemerciless.com/atat.html
http://www.dailyprobe.com/arcs/fbi_suspects/bin_18kenobi.shtml
http://www.bloodforoil.org/ | http://www.dyncorp-sucks.com/pmc/default.htm
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